OCD in the NFL: Zane Gonzalez on Mental Health and Performance

Welcome to the Anxiety Society Podcast.

We're your hosts, Dr. Elizabeth Mackinbell and Cali Werner, both therapists and individuals that have navigated our own anxiety journeys.

Have you ever wondered how we became a society that is so defined by anxiety?

Tune in as we discuss, learn and dive into what anxiety is, how we perpetuate it, and how we can stop it.

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We are here to push boundaries, challenge the status quo, and deep dive into topics that are sure to make you uncomfortable.

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And there's one thing that I need from you.

Can you come through?

Welcome back to the Anxiety Society Podcast.

I'm Callie, here with a guest that I am so thrilled about.

You guys know how I live for mental health and athletes.

So we've got a good pal, Zane Gonzalez, here to join us at the show.

Zane, thanks for being here.

Thanks for having me.

I'm excited to be here.

Yeah.

We're going to dive in today to Zane's story a bit and just really talk about who he is, what he does.

I'm actually going to introduce him first.

So Zane is a professional football player entering his ninth year in the NFL and the 2025 IOCDF Illumination Award winner.

I was there for that.

A standout at Arizona State University, he was a freshman All American, a three time First Team All Pack 12 selection, and a one time Second Team All Pack 12 honoree.

Drafted by the Cleveland Browns in 2017, Zane has since earned two Pro bowl alternate honors.

Off the field, he's an advocate for mental health awareness, passionate about faith and family.

Welcome, Zane.

All right, Zane, so I gave you a little pre warning.

We always start Anxiety Society with an anxious moment and this can be anything from the week that's happened that just kind of threw you for a loop.

And so always go first in the podcast.

I have shared many of our dog rescuing extravaganzas at my home.

At one point we had 13.

That's like our record.

And we currently have five too many.

Five too many.

And we got the last two adopted because three of them are ours.

And I was so excited and just felt like a huge relief and they both got Returned.

So I've been very anxious and stressed out about that because we've got a lot of travel coming up, and it's just, like, not a thing to get someone to watch your five dogs, like.

Right.

Yeah, I can imagine that's a lot of anxiety there.

I'll say.

I have two dogs, and I already stressed out with them, too.

Alone.

Well, two dogs and a baby, right?

Yeah, two dogs and a baby.

But the dogs are usually when we travel, we have to find somewhere to put them at, and that's already a struggle as it is.

Definitely 5.

I can only imagine.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So what is your anxious moment of the week?

My anxious moment of the week is just something that honestly makes no sense.

So we have a TV mounted in our living room.

It's pretty big tv, and we have our baby boy, Luca, and his playpen's kind of set up in there.

And like, yesterday, my wife was out and about with her friends and just kind of called her.

I was like, am I crazy to think about this?

Like, the TV just randomly gonna fall?

And it's like, so any which ways that anxiety built up enough to where I had to move the couches, the playpins away and create about a foot gap.

And.

And the TV's not loose or anything.

Nothing at all.

Like, it's never even remotely became loose at all.

So it's just.

Now it's just whatever.

But Luke has already kicked the cage already back that way, so we're gonna have to keep.

Keep on top of that.

But Rand of the week kind of ate at me for about, like, an hour yesterday before I finally did something like, oh, but came out of nowhere.

So, yeah, anxiety of the week.

And so then eventually, Luca will be crawling back under the tv, and you're anxiety.

He's already crawling back, and he's already kicked it out there.

So he's already back at it.

He's like, dad, we are not giving into your anxiety.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

Amazing.

Well, today we're going to discuss the intersection of sports and OCD and really just dive into your personal story.

And I might go on tangents, as I do.

Please do in both of our stories to that, because I think there's a lot of relatability there.

So I will just start with the initial question.

Tell us a little bit about yourself, what it was like growing up, and did anxiety play a part in that?

So I grew up here in Deer Park, Texas.

Played a lot of sports growing up, had a pretty big family and very competitive in every aspect.

Older brother, younger Sister.

So everything we did was just extremely, extremely competitive.

And with that, like, the OCD and anxiety was always there.

I found myself having lingering thoughts about performances that weren't even meaning anything.

It'd be a performance in the front yard of my brother playing basketball, how he maybe have won this time, what I could have done different.

And then that kind of proceeded to go on to the future.

And when I actually started playing competitive sports, those thoughts, like, kind of were just a little bit more intense than the normal person I realized.

So with me growing up, that was just always a part of my life.

And it took me a long time to open up.

But then when I finally talked about it to my dad and eventually led to the diagnosis of OCD and stuff like that, that's when I finally realized that, okay, this is just not just a regular thing.

So those are little tidbits that kind of killed me growing up.

But with that, I think it also helped me out in so many different ways.

Made a competitive edge that made me different than everybody, I kind of think.

And maybe stood out and still to this day, kind of sticks with me.

Yeah.

So when did you get diagnosed?

How old were you then?

I always forget.

I was, like, between fourth and fifth grade.

But at that point, you didn't really know what it was.

You just got the diagnosis.

My dad kind of had seen me getting angry about having the perfect letter when I'm writing a.

Like, doing a homework or something like that.

And then he kind of knew something was different.

My mom is bipolar and ocd, so she kind of saw the signs at an early age.

And when they took me, got diagnosed, but again, didn't think much of it.

There's really not a quick remedy fix, really.

So you kind of just keep on keeping on.

Yeah.

And then throughout the junior high years is kind of when it really ramped up that I kind of knew that, okay, this is what it is.

Take a step back and kind of understand it.

Easier said than done.

The anger.

Anger management aspect of it still definitely stuck in.

Yeah.

How to seek counseling on that kind of stuff.

But over time, it's kind of mellowed out.

Or at least I try to show off a mellow face, but it's still.

There pretty internally sometimes.

Yeah.

Well, when you were in school and it had it tied to writing the perfect letter, um, I had the exact same thing, but for me, it always tied to a race coming up.

So, like, if I didn't write this letter, for me, it was more tied to scrupulosity and the Letter didn't face up towards God, then I wouldn't do as well in my race, right?

And it was just all of these little things that would come up that led to a lot of extra stress.

Did yours always tie to sport performance?

It was always sport performance.

But it also could be something like off the field, like, like, and this is kind of crazy, but like family's health problems, stuff like that.

If I didn't do this, like my mom was dealing with some stuff at that time, like this would happen or if I didn't, for me, it was like the letter E. Like if I just didn't mess it up, then like it would be either sport related.

If I had like a big game coming up the next day or a big performance come up the next day, like, okay, then I'm not going to be right?

So then I go into that warm up to that game and I'm already thinking about this thing and it's just lingering, lingering thoughts and then crazy health aspects, like if I don't do this, like my mom was kind of going through some stuff or my grandma had cancer and it's just the craziest, darkest thoughts that could ever come across and just completely unrealistic.

But as a kid, you don't know that.

You just kind of know these thoughts and you're just kind of trying to deal with it any which way you can, right?

And as an adult too, right?

I think so many listeners are adults with ocd.

And one of the things about ocd, usually we have pretty good insight.

Like most of the time we know as we get older, okay, this is irrational.

But it's the urge, right?

The anxious urge that's so strong that it starts to feel debilitating, like we, we can't handle it.

Even though we know it's irrational, we get that pull to engage in the compulsive behavior.

And it's overwhelming.

I mean, it truly is.

I mean, there's definitely.

I mean, you hit on the head, like, even as an adult, you're still kind of doing that compulsive behavior.

Like just recently, about a week ago, I was sending out that clip for.

I forget what it's called.

Abby's Cup.

Abby's Cup.

And I was doing the videos upstairs.

My wife was wondering.

It took about one take and she was so like, what's going on?

And like halfway through I was like, it's not, it's not like it was like a whole lot to say, but it just had to be perfect.

And if it didn't Bug me.

So at one point I had to go downstairs, take the dogs on a walk and come back in.

But those things are still very, very much there.

And I think she's seen it a lot in a lot of different ways, but that was like the most recent one where she was just kind of like, we laugh it off.

That's kind of how we try to deal with things.

But she, I mean, she's definitely eye open to those situations.

They do come up more often than not.

Yeah, for sure.

And you also mentioned that there was a point you were feeling like engaging in some of these gave you that competitive edge.

Right.

And I think that is why so many athletes, including myself, are afraid to seek help or support.

I, through high school and most of college struggled and with my OCD in silence because people had even told me, oh, Callie, I didn't get a diagnosis until I was 21, but it was present from age 4 onward.

Um, but they were kind of like, oh, Callie, you're a good athlete because you do all these things, right?

Because you're so sharp and on edge.

And, and so I believed that if I got help, I would be a worse runner.

And so I didn't.

And till it got to this point where it was overbearing and I hated my sport because anytime a race would come up within that two week window, it was constant compulsions.

Uh, and it really wasn't until probably a few years ago, even as a clinician saying that this was a few years ago is wild, that I realized that the compulsions were weighing me down more.

Right.

That with effective treatment, I could love my sport and perform well.

And I'll, I'll share this, like, really vulnerable moment.

I had a big race about two years ago now, and really, OCD doesn't show up for me in my day to day life anymore.

It's very rare.

And now with marathon running, I run one race a year.

Right.

It's great.

And so around that time, I started having some of those old lingering thoughts of, well, but you didn't use this shampoo, and you usually use this shampoo when you race.

And then did you make sure that you ended the shower on cold water?

Because I had all these things that I believed would help me race versus not.

And then I caught myself doing that and I just paused and I said, wait, you're a therapist now that tells patients to do their homework and so do your homework.

Right?

And I kind of reversed some of the compulsions, did exposures for them, and I had the best race I ever had.

I PR'd and felt more free.

Free.

But it is so hard to get to that point, right?

Just the hesitation, I would say it's incredibly hard.

I mean, I'm a very routine oriented guy, especially when it comes to kicking.

Because kicking pitchers, golfers, we're all very similar in the aspect of it's kind of one motion, you're just repeating.

So it's like if you even miss go one step off, you feel it immediately.

So for me, it's like starts with the night before, what I eat, what I have right before bed.

And when I wake up, if I didn't have enough sleep, if I didn't shower for this long, and then like brushing your teeth or whatever.

It is like, it's very, very routine oriented.

And it took me honestly, until really this past year to kind of break that.

And it wasn't even like something I chose to do is.

I mean, I had a newborn baby going into the playoffs.

So that just throws a wrench into everything totally.

Life comes at you really fast.

And honestly, it was the best thing that ever happened to me because once we had baby Luca, I.

We had them on a Wednesday, had to go to practice the next day.

It was snow, blizzard, had a really good practice.

But you.

I'm used to doing X, Y and Z before practice, but at that point, I was driving from the hospital and then going back to the office.

You have a choice.

Exactly.

And then the night before the game, we were staying in a hotel.

That same week, we had a Sunday night football game.

And the day of the game, I found myself FaceTime under my wife, which I never do.

Like, I'm usually very like, you take a nap, do this, do that.

But I was like FaceTiming, calling.

I even left the team hotel, came back and I did all this stuff for the game, which is just way out of my norm.

Like.

And then before I knew it, I won the game, had a great game, and I had a great rest of the year.

But those things broke those habits without me even purposely trying to.

It's just Luca did it for me, I guess your values exactly.

Like, his life's bigger than you at some points.

And for me, like, my wife was struggling.

He was a newborn, so trying to deal with all those things kind of forced me to do it.

But at the end of the day, once you do break it, you realize that how crazy those thoughts were.

Originally, you're like, okay, these are just hindering me.

But similar to what you said throughout my career until that point, I thought These were like the superpowers that made me the super me when I needed to be.

Yeah.

And I think it helped me out in so many different ways.

And it gives.

Anybody that has OCD understands that it gives you that peace of mind as well.

Temporarily.

Yeah, temporarily.

That like you.

It's like a quick fix, but it's, you know, it's not long term.

Right, right.

Yeah.

And I think with that, what we see over time too is, and you've probably had this experience as well, is some you get that temporary fix that first, and then the more that compulsion comes up, the more it takes from you to even be able to get.

And then before you know it, it's like, it's like a job.

You feel like you have to do it and then in order to have these results.

But that is just, again, in hindsight, very silly to say out loud as an adult.

But I mean, I'd be lying if I decided, like, that wasn't who I was up until relatively this past year.

Honestly, like, I had the diagnosis, I knew exactly what's going on.

I was aware of everything.

But I, I mean, I made a quote, I think at some point during the season, like, it's kind of what makes me a better person or a better athlete in some ways.

But that is just not the truth, I feel in so many different ways, I think it's just a mask you kind of put on just to try to fix it and get away with it for the next hour or two and then you're kind of back into it.

But then at that point you're just held victim to it for the next game, the next time you do.

And it's just a repeating and never ending situation.

And I think it creates ultimately more anxiety than it does anything because you're focused on that instead of the performance at hand or whatever, so.

Well said.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And one of the things I love to share with athletes, there's a research study I did with a good friend of mine who's a sports psychologist, and we evaluated superstitious behaviors in athletes and we found that athletes that are more prone to experiencing anxiety, those superstitious behaviors actually lower their overall confidence versus athletes that are less likely to experience that anxiety.

They do get some benefit from superstitious behaviors, but those of us with anxiety disorders and ocd, it's the opposite.

And so I always try to encourage pre performance routines over superstitious behaviors.

But it's interesting because it sounds like for you, your pre performance routines became an extreme to the point of Being a compulsion.

And so it's kind of like, well, what do I do here?

But I love that your value of your son overpower.

We always talk about incorporating values based work into what we're doing.

And you have this value of, okay, I can either engage in these extra behaviors or be present for my family and my son and still show up to work.

And I love that it worked out in that way.

So to pivot, I want to talk about more about that comment you made where your story kind of went viral.

And I'm sure that when it was initially pointed out that this helped me, there were some comments or things that you got back that weren't helpful.

Just can you share with listeners that may be listening that don't even know this part of your story?

What happened, I mean, so during that game was kind of nuts.

I mean, again, throughout my whole career, I've always kind of done the same things which creates ticks.

So for me, it was like my socks and feel just right.

I got particular socks I wear a game day.

If it didn't feel right, I have to adjust it.

I changed my socks like after pregame, after halftime, like three times during the game.

So always I'm kind of aware where the cameras are whenever you're in like a bigger stage thing.

So I try to hide it or go to the bag, try to just not draw any attention to it.

So that means my socks, my shoes, stuff like that.

But all my teammates since like high school are very aware of the stuff that I do.

They just kind of let me do it because at the end of the day, we're all just trying to get a job done, trying to get a win right?

So for me, whenever all that happened, that game, field goal went in, go back to the locker room.

And I'm not on Twitter, I only have Instagram.

And usually during the season, I try to stay off of all that for reasons like you're mentioning.

But my teammates are like, and you're going viral.

And I'm like, I already knew exactly what it's for because obviously on the field it had a severe tick set in to where I couldn't.

Like.

So for me, it's a squeeze in the head helmet and if it doesn't feel right, you gotta take it off and repeat.

But I had nothing to do with the hair swab or whatever that people like to.

People were throwing it.

Oh, they were like, it was tied to looks.

It was so crazy.

So, like it was the whole thing.

But it had already gone viral, like earlier that year in a situation prior.

So, yeah, I didn't know it was gonna be that extent.

But then by the time I go to work the next day, it's just all over everything.

So I got like a whirlwind, had to deal with all that stuff.

And for me, like, I mean, I. I spoke my mind, I spoke my truth.

Like, that's the way I see it.

Like, it always has been like a private super matter.

Like, I don't ever promote it, don't ever talk about it.

Like, half the people just thought, think I'm just a weirdo that kind of touched my socks at some points.

But there's a big thing too.

I just don't want to look for a crutch of anything.

I don't want people to ever think anything.

And that kind of goes under the athlete.

People are mentally weak for having a mental disorder.

But I said what I said, and pretty much it was along the lines of, I personally see it as like a superpower to help me out, to be the best version of myself.

That may not hold true for everybody.

And I understand in hindsight and honestly, it's still.

It isn't a superpower, but it for me, I tricked myself.

I flipped the mind in such a way that, like, that's the way I see it.

And I have had success with it.

Yeah.

Is it like you are that much more resilient because you're showing up to a game where other people don't have all this extra emotional baggage and you're also dealing with that on top of that?

I wouldn't say too much of that.

I would say more set.

Like the.

So, like pre snap thoughts, mental ability to get ready for a game, like, feel like if I did all this stuff right, I can go into the game and I feel 100%.

Whereas there's some people that go on a game kind of without, like cues to lock in.

So they're a little like maybe the first quarter go by and they're not as locked in as they should.

For me, I saw it as a chance, like an hour and a half before the game.

I was locked in, ready to get going.

And so I was already ready.

I never had that, like, oh, I wasn't ready for this kick, or oh, I wasn't ready for this.

Like, for me, it made me ready and I had kind of no choice.

Right, Right.

Do you feel like if.

If something threw that off, like, it.

Because life.

Unexpected things happen, like having a baby.

Right.

That would have set on more anxiety for you?

No.

It definitely set up more anxiety.

But I found those games where I went into that more anxiety or the games I usually have the best performances or crazy performances.

Like, like one time in college I had a crazy really good game my senior year, but prior to it I kind of was dealing with the hamstring thing.

So I wasn't able to like do any warm up kicks before the game or anything like that and kind of had to wing it.

Ended up having probably the best game in my career.

So it's kind of stuff like that where you're just kind of like in hindsight you're like, well, what the heck am I doing every other time?

But again, way easier said than done.

Breaking those habits.

Those habits set in, they just stack.

It's like a snowball effect.

It's bigger and bigger and bigger until somebody just breaks it.

What are you doing?

Yeah.

It's taken me a long time to get to this place of.

Because similar to you, for me it was tying my shoes.

Like I got to a point where I was tying my shoes seven, eight times and it still didn't feel right.

So I had to redo it again and I couldn't get to the starting line on time.

So my coach started tying them for me and like, yes, I was still able to, able to perform, right.

I was still able to.

Once I got in the race it was good, but I dreaded the lead up to the race because I knew I was always going to have to struggle in that way.

Right.

And that progressed and got to a point because we were racing every other week or every week and I think it would wax and wane a lot because I'd get injured and then I'd have some time off and then I'd be able to come back and start the routine over.

And it will maybe wasn't as intense, but as we talk about often in treatment is that OCD left untreated tends to worsen with time.

Right.

And so it got to this point where I dreaded my sport altogether.

And I look back, not like in a.

Not regretful way, but more of like a. Oh, I probably would have had like that much more energy to compete in a race if I had just like you did that time, you weren't able to engage and it sounds like you had some effective coping skills to be.

Because I think some individuals with OCD don't have those coping skills.

If something gets off, they can't recover.

Right.

Like they are just, it's off and they can't show up and you Were able to do that regardless.

Yeah.

And I credit that just like back being a little kid just trying to compete with my older brother in different sports and those things, like, I mean, at the end of the day, once, I mean for y', all, once the gun goes for us, once the whistle blows, everything kind of tends to fade back into the normal.

Normalcy, I'd say.

But for kicking, like I grew up a soccer player.

Soccer is like once you get going, you're going.

Kicking is one of those things that you have some free time so it kind of sticks in.

But for me, like, I managed to deal with that by I mean as a kicker, you tend to be.

You want to stand off, do your own thing.

For me, I try to get.

I've learned like watch, be more engaged in the game.

Like actually have some emotional ties to it a little bit.

And for me, that unlocks something that kind of was able to take away from those self thoughts that I was having by myself in the corner.

So those are big things for me that I've like kind of learned over time.

I mean through trial and error plenty of times.

But yeah, they've kind of helped me out in the long run.

I love that because it sounds to me like you recognize you're more of a type a personality type of person.

Right.

As are a lot of people, really competitive, incredible athletes.

And you kind of recognized that you needed a different coaching style internally.

Right.

So like, you didn't need to be told constantly, come on, Zane, get it together.

You've gotta do this.

You actually needed the opposite of like some of those healthy distractions, reminders to like watch this part of the game.

Do you ever try to incorporate that reminder when you're in the sport to keep it fun or to keep it light and to find that out.

So for me, I had in college we had a guy we worked with rest in peace Shriver Moad.

A really good like mental athletic worker.

I'm trying to think of the terminology that he used to go about the go by but any which raised in college he used to like try to tell us to trick our mind.

So like as a kicker you're like, you want to get closer, have easier kick, whatever.

He kind of flipped the script.

He was like, you kind of want them to take this sack, lose 5 yards, take a further ball because now it looks better in your stats.

So like crazy things like that where he tricked my brain crazy.

And like honestly, I kind of stuck with that.

So right now it's like, like I try to go into the games thinking that it's like, hey, like, why wouldn't I want a tougher kick than try to earn a better kick or something like that?

And so for me, it's just staying more active, more into the game and just being aware of, like, the situation, honestly, having fun.

Easier said than done.

Going to year nine, year one through four, Zane was just an anxiety ball.

Just trying to, like, figure out my career.

Figure out because that match.

You're in a new livelihood.

That's.

That's your career now.

It's kind of a little bit more been there, done that situation.

So it's.

I'm able to enjoy it, have fun.

Like, especially this past year, especially again, once I had my son Luca.

It's just, man, how cool is it to be still playing a sport that you're doing as a kid now that you have a kid?

Like, so it's just truly one of those things that, like, for me, it's like, take a step back and realize how lucky and blessed you are in a lot of way.

That's where faith kind of comes into it a little bit for sure.

And those things are freeing in a lot of different ways because then now you're just having fun.

And usually when you're having fun, that's when you perform the best.

Yeah.

So do you feel like now that you.

You've had this extra reminder that your identity is not fully in sport.

Right.

Because you have your faith, because you have Luca, that it's taken a little bit more of the pressure off 100.

I think it started a few years back with faith.

I mean, just like most kids, like, big religion guy, Catholic throughout high school.

You go to college, you kind of do your own thing in college.

Everybody kind of goes on the way.

And then it took me about two years after college where I kind of refound my faith, but in my own way, which I tell people is like, in high school, you're kind of just doing it because your parents are making you go.

And then eventually you kind of find it in your own way.

And for me, it was just a way, like, for.

I started realizing the freeingness of just trusting God and having the faith and everything.

And then for me, also, like, journaling opened up, so kind of all hit me at once.

I remember, like, June or July and 2019 ish or 2018 ish is kind of when everything hit me by storm.

And for me, it was just so awesome just to write those thoughts down, have the faith and understand.

And that kind of unlocks some things.

I Mean, there's still a lot going on.

And then over time you build your life right here.

I am 30, I have a wife, I have a kid, I have two dogs.

Like, once you, the real life kind of kicks in, you kind of learn, like, hey, it's not all about you.

There's a lot of other stuff going on.

There's a lot of factors in life.

So it's like this one little thing that you highlighted that was your character for so long is now just the portion and you try to apart, middleize it for.

For me, the more the merrier.

Like, I like to put a little bit extra on my plate because then it takes away from that little craziness because there was a point where it's like you're not dreading your job, but you're just kind of like, man, I know once I get back into this, the anxiety is through the roof.

So for me, like I told my wife, when the season starts, like usually anxiety, you can sense it.

Anxiety in myself a lot.

So she sees it, I see that.

But together we kind of get through it pretty well.

I love that you said that because some of my research for my PhD is on interviewing Olympians and I've interviewed 20 different ones on their Olympic experiences.

And so many of them say the exact same thing you just said in that, um, it is the worst thing in the world for them to just do their sport.

Like, it's not helpful.

And so I, I'm amazed because I have one individual that I know pretty well shared with me.

There was a season where she was just racing and then there was a season where she was working a part time job and racing.

And when she was just racing, she was stretching.

Right.

She was icing correctly, she was doing all of these extra things.

When she got the part time job, she was only able to do half of those things.

Can you guess which one she PR in?

Yeah, exactly.

Right, right.

So like it is such a good remind grinder to just kind of fuel the tank that you know you need to fuel.

Exactly.

And then once you do that kind of stuff, like I'm sure just like person you're talking about, it's, you realize you don't need to do all those extra things like you need to do some of them because after you have to recover through certain things, but to an extra degree.

Right.

So it's like you don't have to take it all the way.

And I found myself doing that a few years back as well.

Whenever it was just me and my wife, no dog Nothing like at that time my girlfriend and it's like I'll spend all these hours doing all this stuff and then it took me getting kind of a crazy injury to realize like, hey.

Like and then coming back and then we have a dog and all this stuff and you kind of slowly see the transition.

And then for me it just like honestly credit to my wife kind of pointing it out.

It's like the more stuff that you do, the kind of better and like it makes you a better person, makes you take the anxiety.

And also she sees the anxiety that comes with sport as well, at such a high level as well because there's really no room for error.

So when you go out there, you kind of set the be perfect in some ways.

And so I again, like, I just think the having more on your plate kind of helps out so much.

For sure, for sure.

And so what do you hope career wise happens for you in the next year?

This is a loaded question and I'm sorry I didn't give you a free warning.

No, you're good.

I mean right now we're free agents, so we're just kind of waiting on the call.

We're at the point in our life where I'm just again very lucky and blessed to still be doing what I'm doing.

Like just trying.

I joke around, tell people I'm just trying to dodge real life as long as I can fairly.

I lived a goal of being able to play a game with my son being alive.

Now the next goal is to play long enough to where you can actually remember it.

But this year we're just waiting on the call and hopefully for the best opportunity.

And then once we get going, it's not just me up and going, living in a hotel for months on end now it's the family.

So yeah, hoping it's a good little city we'll see.

And then wherever we end up, we'll just have air pack the car up and get going again.

I mean we were cross country people, we like driving.

I love my dog, so I'll take them everywhere.

So if it involves a 20 hour road trip, well, so be it.

We'll get through it because the dog's got to come.

That's so great.

So that's where I'm at.

And my wife, credit to her, she's all about it nowadays with the baby we will tend to, I'll fly her and grandma on the baby out and then I'll do the road trip in solo but within the road trip.

And like I, I love it.

I mean, it's private time.

Get to think a lot.

I enjoy the free time with the dogs.

If we stay at a hotel overnight somewhere, the dog can actually sleep in the bed where they can't do at home.

Now they get a treat too.

Exactly it as well.

So, I mean, right now we're just waiting for the next opportunity, going from there, but in the meantime, just enjoying life.

I used to kind of like wait around for the call.

I can't go do this or I can't do that, because you never know what's gonna happen.

Life can't be on hold.

Yeah, exactly.

That's kind of the older thing.

So it's like we just got back from our house in Arizona.

We had a nice little vacation, took my son to see my alma mater and stuff like that.

And then now we're back, we're just enjoying it, like going golfing.

Still doing my training five days a week.

But within that, you gotta have fun, so you gotta do it for yourself.

You remind me of a funny story.

I love that you fly your wife back and you take the long drive.

I lead a Christian running camp with my husband up in Mammoth Lakes, California for collegiate athletes.

And we just got back and it's.

Mammoth Lakes is like a 26 hour drive.

Yeah, it's a drive.

Yeah.

And he always likes to bring the car up.

And I was like, okay, I'm gonna fly up, but I'll ride back with you.

Like, had every intention of doing this.

And we're get in the car to go back and about like, I don't know, eight hours in, he's like, I'm gonna drop you off in New Mexico and you're gonna fly home from there.

And I was like, what?

I'm a great passenger.

And he goes, it's just a lot, Callie.

Like, you need snacks, you need to go to the bathroom, you need to do all these things.

And so that's gonna be something I work on.

Cause I had fun doing it, but he wasn't for it.

Yeah, I mean, I love having my wife in the car.

She's honestly not a bad passenger.

It's just like the baby aspect.

Cause the baby every two, two and a half hours.

And then like the amount of times we had to go into a gas station, be like, hey, do you have any, like, fresh warm water or like a bottle warmer so we can like dip the bottle and kind of warm it up?

So all this stuff that comes along with traveling with the baby and dogs, and sometimes we're towing a trailer as well, so it's just we're kind of those people adventures.

Exactly.

So she misses a little bit.

But at the same point is like when it's just me and the dogs, it's so much more smooth selling.

Yeah, it's.

We'll pull over once every five hours, very quick, quick McDonald's snack and then keep going.

Whereas my wife doesn't really like fast food as much as I do.

So there's that little caveat as well.

Same.

I feel like I was in the exact same boat.

Like, I'm celiac and I have a very.

So there were just so many extra things and extra stops.

But I was having fun.

He just wasn't.

Not that day, but.

Okay, so then my next question is, as you go into a future season, whatever is to come next, are you hoping to kind of maintain this more?

I've broken some of these extra habits because of that situation where the baby needed you, your wife needed you.

Are you hoping to be able to do that a little more freely?

I'm hoping so.

They're coming a little bit more like easy going.

So it's not as.

I need to be around as much as possible.

I've kind of got a good handle and stuff.

So I feel like there might be some slippage going back into old ways, which, I mean, to be expected.

It's just nowadays, how do I cope with it?

How do I deal with that in different ways?

So for me, again, just try to keep it light.

So on the off days, do some family fun stuff, try to continue to go golf and try to try to do all the stuff that I was doing regularly and try to bring that back in.

But it's easier said than done because once you get in the thick of the things, like in late November, early December, where the football really starts mattering, it's easiest, especially for me, really easy to slip back in old ways that you're finding success with it.

You're just trying to get by and you're trying to find normalcy.

But for me, I would try my best to keep as light as I can, try to continue to do all the things I'm doing now, but we'll see.

Easier said than done.

Like, mentally, I'm trying to go into it thinking that way, expecting that there's going to be some slippage.

But my way of, like, dealing with it is just talking to my wife, having conversations like this, continuing the journaling.

Good exposures.

Yeah, you've done great exposures, it sounds like.

So, yeah, that's that big part And.

And will your wife keep you accountable?

Does she say, like, zane, you got to lean in, you got to do that exposure?

She does.

Usually.

She.

She's not too busy with her hands full of the baby, but, yeah, she is pretty good about checking me.

Yeah.

Amazing.

Amazing.

Well, I want to share one more thing about how I met you, because this is, like, so full circle for me, and I think I've already.

I've already talked to you about this story, but we have a mutual friend who's gonna hate that I'm sharing his name on the podcast.

So I'm really excited to do it.

Jared Kelly, right.

Who's friends with your older brother.

Known Jared since I was about, like, five years old.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so when first came out on ESPN and all the things, I didn't know who you were, and they jokingly were like, callie, you need to get them on your podcast.

And I said, well, I don't.

I can't just, like, ask this guy that I've never met to be on a podcast.

And then we both ended up at the international OCD conference, and I got to interview you there.

And so here we are, full circle at the podcast.

Yeah.

When they said that you had a connection to my older brother, I was a little terrified.

I didn't know who it could be.

I have heard some stories, but they are not for the podcast.

Not at all.

But, I mean, I love my brother, but.

No, you just never know.

I mean, growing up with his group of friends are a rowdy bunch.

You just never know what's gonna go up.

But no, I mean, once Jared just started cracking me up because Jared, just the class clown, essentially.

So funny.

So, yeah, it's kind of hilarious that that was.

The guy immediately brought a smile to my face.

And then.

Yeah.

And kind of lacks the whole weekend after that for me, because going into that weekend in Chicago, I really didn't know what to expect.

And then we had the opening interview, and then that went pretty smoothly.

And then getting ready for that speech later on, I was kind of a little antsy, and.

But, I mean, all in all, got through it.

And then the people there were just truly, truly amazing, and what an incredible experience it was.

Do you think you might go back?

We want to go back next year.

Heck, yeah.

I think it's in Seattle, I believe.

Yes, that's right.

So we'll.

We'll see you back at the same place then.

Well, in these last few moments, one.

I'd love to just know one fun, silly fact about you that we can leave listeners with.

And then we'll end with a word of advice.

The only silly thing I can think of is, like, deathly afraid of height.

So, like, I've never rolled a roller coaster or anything like that.

So anytime, like, ever since I was a kid, we go to amusement parks.

Like a Houston Rodeo, for example.

Like, I was a guy, like, hey, like, don't press me on it.

Don't try to get me a ride.

I'm gonna sit on this bench.

So, like.

Like, I'd had girlfriends in junior high, high school, and I'd be like, hey, like, y' all go ride this.

My feet are gonna be right.

Like, please don't bug me out.

And then, sure enough, like, once you get there, oh, they're your kid and your kid.

And get on this, I'm like, no.

Like, I'll go get popcorn.

And like, they think that, like, felt bad because in their eyes, like, oh, I'll sit with you.

I'm like, no.

Like, I was so used to it at this point.

Like, dude, just go.

Yeah, it's worse if you sit with it.

If you sit with it, then I take.

Highlighting it for me is like, you need to enjoy yourself.

I enjoy myself.

I promise you, it's not hurting my feelings.

And so for me, that just to this day, it still sticks with me.

I mean, I've rode a couple of my wife now, but, wow, she.

This must be a perfect match for her to get you on a roller coaster.

You got me on a couple in San Antonio.

I mean, full transparency.

I just closed my eyes the entire time and held on, and just before I knew it, it was done.

Oh, she.

She is so good at helping you lean into those exposures, though, to get you on.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

She's so.

No enjoyment, though.

We're not there.

Not enjoyment at all.

I just kind of did it to say I did.

You suffered through it.

Yeah.

And then I now I tell people, like, oh, I roll a roller coaster every now and then, but not really.

I mean, I literally just closed my eyes and just waited till it was amazing.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

You must really love her.

Yeah, she's awesome.

She's the best thing to happen to me.

Well, okay, then the last.

Last piece is for listeners that may be struggling or just athletes in general that are getting out there, going and playing, looking up to you to hope to maybe one day play in the NFL.

What would you share for them?

Just be yourself.

What works for you might not work for others, and vice versa.

And I think there's some power in that.

And just have confidence in who you are as a person.

But within that, the build conference, open up about whatever immensely is going on.

I mean, even if you don't have ocd, if you're just regular person, you can still talk and get those thoughts out of your head.

Because I'd like to joke around is like, you don't want to create those spider webs in your head because once they get going, they just branch out.

And so like just keeping it simple or it's kind of crazy to say, but like my whole thing is like, keep it simple, stupid.

So it's essentially like, just say it out loud, get off your chest.

And usually you're like, that was a dumb thought.

So it's just kind of get those thoughts out.

Have confidence yourself.

Don't try to be anybody else.

Because I mean, as a young person, I try to like, see those guys that go out nonchalant, want and go to things.

And that's kind of where I'd go out there and like, oh, crap, I missed one kick.

And it's like, oh, I wasn't ready.

It's like, no, just be you.

Trust your process and continue on with whatever you got going on.

And within that, just put your best foot forward and continue to work.

And there's no rest.

Recipe for success.

You just got to put the work in, whether it be in the OCD road, whether it be an athletic world, in any road.

You just.

People want a shortcut.

There's no shortcut.

You just got to put the hours in.

So, so true.

Yeah, you're not alone in it.

People are there to help, help, support.

And I, I like the keep it simple, stupid.

Mine is.

Well, it's not mine.

A lot of people say it, but if you can name it, you can tame it.

Yeah.

So, yeah, same concept.

Well, Zane, thank you so much for being on.

This is going to help so many people.

Just your vulnerability is something that a lot of athletes, especially men in the athlete community, can look up to.

So really appreciate it.

Thank you for having me.

It's been a blast.

Absolutely.

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